Even though I’m a Licensed Massage Therapist, I’ve gathered a lot of inspiration, and techniques, from physical therapists and strength coaches. I think that’s mostly because those groups are more focused on improving how your body functions, rather than your posture or state of mind.

This group includes Gray Cook and the Functional Movement Systems crew (everyone here at Integration Bodywork uses the Selective Functional Movement assessment in every appointment), the people at Postural Restoration Institute, and Bill Hartman, et al. at iFAST. These last two groups are highly focused on improving breathing and bracing strategies first, then addressing the rest of your complaints.

I tend to agree with the breath-first group, which is why I’m so excited to have Kane Sivesind on the show today. Kane owns Core Health and Fitness in Middleton, WI, which is absolutely one of the best gyms in the Madison area. They don’t have lots of fancy machines or juice bars, just top-notch individualized programming, and the incorporation of breathing and bracing drills as a fundamental part of everyone’s program.

In this episode, Ray, Kane, and I discuss:

  • Kane’s personal knee healing and rehab story
  • How Core Health and Fitness works with their clients
  • Rib-cage retraction and its relation to the pelvis
  • Breathing patterns with balloons and straws
  • Inhalation and exhalation techniques
  • Importance of reaching
  • Whether there are 6 or 7 fundamental movement patterns
  • Recovery and post-workout
  • Individualised programming
  • Consistency
  • And more!

You can reach Kane by email at kane@corehealthandfit.com, or by phone, 608-831-2673.

Resources mentioned in today’s episode:

Six Foundational Movement Patterns
Crocodile breathing

Transcript

Scott Robison Kane. Welcome to the Integration Bodywork Podcast. I’m super excited to have you on today. We met back in May I think, something like that.
Kane Sivesind Yeah. It was a couple months ago. I can’t remember the exact date, but yeah. I’m very excited to be here. Thank you very much for having me.
Scott Robison Awesome. Yeah, I texted Dr. John Rusin. I said, “Who’s the best gym owner you know in the area.” He said, “Kane at Core Health and Fitness. Let me set you up.” It was about a 20 minute turnaround on the introduction. Here we are.
Kane Sivesind John’s a great guy. I have to thank him for recommending us and he’s been fun to work with when we get a chance to.
Scott Robison Yeah. For sure. He’s a biz man.
Kane Sivesind Yes.
Scott Robison It was fun that first time we had lunch. We were talking about, this is your philosophy on business, so I think that’s similar, right? When I think, when I mentioned Zac Cupples, somebody else I follow, you kind of gave me this funny look like, “Who is this guy and why haven’t I met him before?”
Kane Sivesind Yeah. There’s certain people in the industry who have beliefs that aren’t always maybe the norm, but resonate with me a lot. Whenever anybody else mentions them, it kind of pops up a little alert on me like, “Hey. This is somebody I can talk with.”
Scott Robison Right.
Kane Sivesind “We have a lot in common with, and I think would be a great resource to bounce ideas off.”
Scott Robison Yeah. Speaking of Zac, he is a Disciple of Bill Hartman and the IFAST crew. I think that’s similar to you … You got kind of into that camp out of college, right? Tell me that story.
Kane Sivesind Yeah. Basically, my road to where I am today, started, well … I mean, we can start all the way back, but I’ll keep it relevant actually. I played college basketball at a small D3 school in Minnesota. I struggled with knee pain, almost my entire career. I visited doctors up the ear, here at the university, all over. Nobody could really tell me exactly what was going on. I kept getting the old, “Hey. It’s tendonitis, just rest and ice it.” That didn’t work.
Scott Robison Nope.
Kane Sivesind You know, I rested for months. I’d come back and boom, it was right there again.
Scott Robison Right.
Kane Sivesind It took me until after I got done playing actually. The year after I graduated, I just kind of had enough. I’d been following Mike Robertson, and Bill Hartman and IFAST for a long, long time, loved their philosophy on things. I traveled down there to get assessed. Within two weeks of following their program, I was healed.
Scott Robison Oh man.
Kane Sivesind My knees have never felt better.
Scott Robison Great.
Kane Sivesind It was not tendonitis. It was actually tendinosis that was going on.
Scott Robison What’s the difference?
Kane Sivesind Just some simple tweaks. Generally, it’s inflammation versus degeneration.
Scott Robison Got it.
Kane Sivesind That’s kind of the ballpark that I understand. They obviously …
Scott Robison Sure.
Kane Sivesind Went way more in-depth than that. That’s kind of what I understood. After that, I was kind of sold. I wanted to help other people get out of pain, live the life they want and … Excuse me, and never have to deal with these nagging injuries again.
Scott Robison Got it. What … I mean, how did they … What’s their philosophy? How did they approach your assessment and rehab that’s different from your typical physical medicine approach?
Kane Sivesind Basically, the number on thing they did is, they didn’t just start with my knee. They looked at my overall body, my movement patterns, knowing that yes, the knee was the pain and knee was kind of the acute issue, but there was something else going on. I had a lot of imbalances going on, between front and back of the body, left and right of the body. Just a lot of things that were causing the knee, but that wasn’t the actual root issue of the issue.
Scott Robison What did your rehab program look like then? A knee tendonitis program, then I think was a lot more of icing and rest. Now it looks a little more like step-ups, banded knee extensions, right, things like that.
Kane Sivesind Yeah. It was a lot more typical … What we see if pre-hab exercises these days, if you wanna call ’em. A lot of glute work, a lot of glute med, a lot of glute mend work. We had some actually decline squats going on. Just some other stuff to help put the knee back together, make sure the tendons are nice and strong, and really correct my imbalances. That was the biggest thing.
Scott Robison What’s a decline squat?
Kane Sivesind It was … I’d actually never … This is the first time I’d ever done it. I guess for patella tendinosis, it’s a big thing. I just had a decline. I was just toes below the heels with a certain type of squat motion that was supposed to really help that tendon. It was a new one for me.
Scott Robison Sure.
Kane Sivesind First couple times I felt really, really awkward, like a lot of things. It actually helped a lot in the longterm.
Scott Robison Right. You own Core Health And Fitness now.
Kane Sivesind Yes.
Scott Robison You purchased that from the original, from founders right? Is that how that worked?
Kane Sivesind Correct. Yeah. About eight years ago or so, I purchased the business after working in it for a year.
Scott Robison Got it. How are you bringing that approach then, into your gym? I know that’s a big piece of how you’re working with folks.
Kane Sivesind Yeah. We deal with a lot of general fitness clients. Not necessarily … We do have some athletes come to our gym. We work a lot with just kind of the general population. Our biggest thing is making sure they can do what they want, when they want in their life. If they’re chasing their grandkids around, or playing golf, they never have to worry about having pain, and not being able to do what they want. Our approach is always looking at the whole body, starting with a full body assessment where we look at movement patterns. We look at imbalances. We try to make sure that they can do what they want, when they want.
Scott Robison Yeah. Got it. That’s a similar philosophy I think that we take here with our clients. You know, with the IFAST crew, I know they talk a lot about breathing and bracing, and some weird ideas on things like rib cage retraction, which I don’t even … Right. That’s not a joint movement or a joint action I learned in school. Can you explain what they’re talking about there?
Kane Sivesind Yeah. Basically, the one thing we like to say is, whenever starting from IFAST talks, it’s kind of like you’re trying to drink water out of a fire hose. I mean, they just spew things out like crazy. They’re so knowledgeable and a lot of our job is to take that information, kind of break it down into simpler steps that we can actually apply with our clients.
Kane Sivesind I think one of the biggest things is a lot of us get stuck in a certain position. Whether that is from sitting all day, whether it’s just from muscle imbalances, a lot of us get stuck in this extension pattern, where we put a lot of stress on our low back. One of our goals is to help get people out of that.
Scott Robison Right. Just to … I’m gonna pause you real quick.
Kane Sivesind Yep.
Scott Robison Just so people are clear right? Extension is like a back bend.
Kane Sivesind Correct. Yep. One of the ways to do that is through breathing patterns. Now, it’s a lot harder than it just sounds, to get somebody to change how they breath. It’s a very fundamental pattern that we do, what, 10,000 times a day or something like that.
Scott Robison Sure.
Kane Sivesind It’s not something that’s just easy to switch on and off. It goes down to a lot of the nervous system. It’s just switching autonomic nervous systems, trying to de-stress. Basically, our goal is to help people get movement back to the rib cage. I think, when you talk about retraction and all that, it goes over people’s heads. Basically, a lot of people have a rib cage that’s stuck, that doesn’t move when they inhale and exhale, the ribs should actually move with that breath.
Scott Robison Yeah.
Kane Sivesind That’s one of the biggest things that we try to get, is just movement back to the body.
Scott Robison Yeah, and all directions right? You see a lot of … Most people that I see are looking at … We get a lot of abdominal rib movement. You get some … Sometimes you get some people who have upper thoracic rib movement, right, posteriorly, towards the back. Getting actual sternal and manubrium movement is basically zero on most people.
Kane Sivesind Yes. It’s very, very challenging to get … You know, having somebody like you, Scott, who get more hands on, can really help, doing it on their own. For us, we try to use different implements like balloons, straws …
Scott Robison Hang on. What?
Kane Sivesind We do a lot with different implements, trying to get breathing patterns better. Basically, a balloon is like a dumbbell for your abs.
Scott Robison Okay.
Kane Sivesind When you exhale into a balloon and try to blow it up, you have to activate the same muscles you would use for a deep exhale, that retracts the rib cage. We do a lot with blowing up a balloon and being able to inhale without having the air come back in and blowing it up again, and just training those muscles to work better.
Scott Robison Okay. Yeah. Like decoupling that, right, the inspiration from the bracing.
Kane Sivesind Exactly.
Scott Robison Okay. How hard is that? How long does it take to actually accomplish sort of, an average person, do you think?
Kane Sivesind The very first time is very difficult.
Scott Robison Yeah.
Kane Sivesind They don’t have the connection to really do that well.
Scott Robison Sure.
Kane Sivesind If they practice for a week, they’re already getting much better at it. Not saying it’s gonna change everything, you know, in a week. It usually takes about six weeks to really make a big, big change in somebody. Just getting them a little, bit better at it, really goes a long way.
Scott Robison Yeah. I mean, what do you do with a straw?
Kane Sivesind A straw, we use for other things that’s just … It just provides some resistance to exhaling.
Scott Robison Yeah.
Kane Sivesind That’s really all we do with the straw. The balloon is a much better implement to use. Not everybody wants to go around blowing up balloons all the time. I don’t blame ’em.
Scott Robison Right. Totally. Yeah. I mean, especially … Do you re-use the balloon? Do you just keep a stack next to your desk? How does …
Kane Sivesind We have a gigantic stack of balloons in a drawer.
Scott Robison Yeah.
Kane Sivesind We don’t share balloons. We don’t re-use-
Scott Robison No. That’s probably not a good idea.
Kane Sivesind That’s pretty much … It’s a one use and done for us. We tried to have people, bring ’em back next time. That never happens.
Scott Robison Right.
Kane Sivesind We just have a gigantic stack of balloons. Not everybody uses ’em, obviously. We’re very selective with who … You have to understand your body and feel [crosstalk 00:10:51] the way it’s moved, to do this well. Not everybody does it. Certain people it’s worked tremendously well with.
Scott Robison Yeah. That’s interesting. Those are exhalation focused drills. Do you do anything, right, with inhalation?
Kane Sivesind Yeah. What we found is people have to be able to exhale first, to get in the right position, to do a good inhale.
Scott Robison Right.
Kane Sivesind That’s the tricky part, is we can’t start … Inhalation is where all the magic happens.
Scott Robison Yep.
Kane Sivesind Things turn on, things work well. That’s where everything good happens. We need to get into the proper position with the, exhale first, to be able to inhale. We do stuff with inhalation, but a lot of our work is getting people set up in the right position with the good exhale first.
Scott Robison Got it. Okay. Yeah. Interesting you say that, because I know … I’ve been pushing the Gray Cook’s crocodile breathing drill for months now. I mean, I think they published a blog post on it, and sent it to my email. It’s like, “Oh, this is interesting.” I tried it. It’s like, changed my world, right? I learned how to find what that good bracing structure felt like, right? You start face down with a couple of light weights on your upper back and low back, right, and then progress to lying on your back, face up.
Scott Robison Once I learned to find it, I was like, “Oh. I can find this sitting. I can find this standing, while I’m doing bodywork. I can find this while I’m carrying my kids.” All of a sudden, all my other movements, my presses and squats and all that other stuff got stronger and all I did, right … I got faster riding my bike, by commuting around town. All I had done was changed the way I was breathing.
Kane Sivesind Yeah. It’s unbelievable. Like you said it’s, different positions. You start in the one that’s the easiest, that you can kind of find that cue on, and then move to a little more difficult, a little more difficult. Eventually, you’ll be standing, running, doing everything. You get that good line up.
Scott Robison Yep.
Kane Sivesind I think you realize the power of what we call joint stacking.
Scott Robison Yep.
Kane Sivesind When things are actually aligned and stacked properly, everything works. It’s magic. When something is not stacked up, it’s gonna be really hard to have it work properly. Something else is gonna take too much brunt and something else isn’t gonna work. Then there’s, just compensations down the chain.
Scott Robison Right. Yeah. Bleeding energy out. This is the thing. I spent a lot of my time trying to work with clients on two, in terms of positional work, is trying to get pelvis and ribcage, right. Pelvis and really diaphragm to face each other. Can you explain, sort of how that works?
Kane Sivesind Yeah. I mean, that’s the number place where we probably look with most of our clients, is that relationship between the ribcage, diaphragm, we will say and the pelvis. Most people … Everybody calls it something different. The open scissors, or the whatever you wanna call it. Most people have too great of a distance, between the front of their pelvis and the front of their ribcage.
Scott Robison Yeah.
Kane Sivesind It’s just open, which, like we talked about, it’s a lot of compression on the low back. Some of it is breath work, being able to activate those deep abs to bring the two together. Some of its just, you know, keeping a finger on it, and feeling what it actually feels like to have those two come together.
Kane Sivesind One thing we’ve noticed a lot is, so many people are pushed so hard forward with that opening and just having ’em kind of rest back and bring their center of gravity back slightly, not super far back, but just back slightly, activates those, abs and kind of brings everything together. A lot of its just … People don’t realize that they’re in that position.
Scott Robison Right.
Kane Sivesind It’s awareness. As soon as we can get ’em in the right position and feel how much stronger they are, then they get it.
Scott Robison Yeah. I just kind of wanna circle back really quick. You know, the piece that people don’t totally appreciate about the breathing and bracing is everybody thinks about core, right, as being … Core equals abs.
Kane Sivesind Yeah.
Scott Robison Except it doesn’t right? Core is really, abs and diaphragm and low back musculature …
Scott Robison Is really like abs, and diaphragm, and low back musculature. But also it turns out, it’s not so much that we’re orienting towards the pelvis like as an abstract quantity, it’s the pelvic floor that we’re really kinda … trying to create that synergy with. Every once in a while, I don’t do it a ton, but some people come in and need some direct pelvic floor work, and the way I usually get the action from them, to actually reactivate or release things is to make contact with it and then just have them connect with hand when they breathe. Sometimes takes them five or six breaths before they find that spot, and then it’s like instant change.
Kane Sivesind Yeah. That’s a great way to put it. Pelvic floor is important, really important. It’s almost like another mini-diaphragm down there. I like what you said about getting that feedback. I think that’s huge for people, is having something to press into, or feel, and that’s how they can kind of make that change because if you just tell somebody to activate your pelvic floor, nobody knows what that means.
Scott Robison Right.
Kane Sivesind I don’t even know if I know what that means.
Scott Robison Except for pregnant moms, or moms have all been sold Kegels, right? Do some Kegels, try to pretend like you’re stopping the flow like if you’re peeing, right?
Kane Sivesind That is true, yes.
Scott Robison Do you see people have a lot of success using that to deal with pelvic floor issues? The number of women out there, I think, pee when they laugh, cough, sneeze, or jump is way higher than I think anybody realizes.
Kane Sivesind I think it comes down to positioning again on that. If you’re not in the right position and you do Kegels, it’s not really doing what you think it’s doing.
Scott Robison Sure.
Kane Sivesind I think if you can set up in the right position, and do Kegels, or whatever you want to call them, plus get a little bit better pelvic floor, like I think it’s part of it but it’s not just sitting there and doing them in your chair isn’t going to help you.
Scott Robison Probably not. The other one is the folks with the … usually this is women, right? With this strong posterior pelvic tilt, their tails tucked under like a sad dog. So the pelvic floor is not just the muscles that connect the tailbone to the front of the pelvis, it’s also the deep lateral rotators of the hip and some other structures. But specifically that’s what we’re dealing with Kegels, but those bring the sacrum to the front of the pelvis, but if you’re in that strong posterior tilt, you’re already there.
Kane Sivesind Yeah.
Scott Robison So really what those people need to do is squat.
Kane Sivesind Yeah, I think that’s perfect. Yeah, I think you nailed it right there, Scott. I got nothing to add to that.
Scott Robison Thanks. On this topic, so there’s another thing that I know the PRI folks are big on, is reaching a rate. Tell me, you have six fundamental movement patterns that you work with people on, I can’t remember, what are those?
Ray Eady Well, those patterns are basic patterns, and I’m sure the coaches that I’ve asked can attest to this, squat pattern, hip hinge pattern, single leg pattern like a lunge pattern, upper body vertical push or horizontal push, and vertical pull, horizontal pull. And then, just to add some flavor to the mix, some type of a carry type of a pattern. Those are the six patterns that we’ve used when I was a collegiate coach. I think they’re applicable for any community or population of folks that you work with, they’re just to me, foundational functional patterns that people kind of express every day. They may not know they’re expressing them, but I mean, I think to a trained eye, we see that yeah, those patterns are evident.
Scott Robison Yeah.
Kane Sivesind Yeah. Those are the exact same patterns we deal with at our gym on a daily basis so I think you’re exactly right, Ray. I like that.
Scott Robison So the reason I bring those up, is that I want to talk about the difference between pressing and reaching.
Kane Sivesind So pressing generally has to deal with when we’re talking about gym movements, so you know a strength mode, so even like a pushup, could be a press, we’re talking vertical and horizontal, so a bench press, a dumbbell press, shoulder press, anything where we’re moving a weight or ourselves.
Scott Robison Yeah, snatch, jerk.
Kane Sivesind Snatch, yeah, all of those can be. Reaching is slightly different and involves a little bit more of the body, and goes kind of more back to stacking things, as well as getting that upper back movement. It’s kind of hard to explain without demonstrating it.
Scott Robison Sure.
Kane Sivesind But basically when we reach, what we’re trying to do is set the core up, set the ribs and the pelvis together, and then move the shoulder blades along the ribcage. That’s one thing that I think a lot of people struggle with, is when you look at their shoulder blades, there’s a disconnect between the back of the ribcage.
Scott Robison Yup, there’s a space between the inside boarder, right?
Kane Sivesind Exactly.
Scott Robison Against the ribcage or the spine.
Kane Sivesind And so, a lot of people do all this stuff with trying to do shoulder blade movement, and like a little trap stuff, which is all really good, but reaching helps, reaching with the proper breathing, helps move the ribcage back to the shoulder blade, too. So they get both of those, not just working the shoulder blade, but we’re reaching, and helping pull those ribs back. And that’s kind of one of the big benefits of it, along with some core activation, and just better stacking up.
Scott Robison Yeah. I know Ray, because you just graduated from massage school this spring, like we get in the body work community, spend a lot of time talking about, oh the pecks are tight, and your traps are long, or your rhomboids are long. But when you get out and work with people, you see a lot of that is not true, number one. So most people’s pecks are tight, but that’s because their hands are just in front of their body all the time. They never reach overhead, they never hang, right? That’s homeostasis.
Kane Sivesind Yeah.
Scott Robison Their scapular retractors are also short, like it seems impossible, how is that possible? But it’s that space that’s getting created. It also takes the upper back into extensions, so you’ve got people who are often rounded in the low back, and then over extended in the upper back, and then oh surprise, they have neck pain.
Kane Sivesind Yes. We call it like the flat T spine or something like that.
Scott Robison Yup, totally. And it’s usually like the first four, the first four or five.
Kane Sivesind Yeah, and it’s weird because it almost … if look at them from the side, it generally looks like they’re kind of rounded because their shoulder blades stick out so much.
Scott Robison Right.
Kane Sivesind But if you actually look at them directly from the back, you can see there’s that big space, and the T spine is just pushed forward, and very flat, and there’s a big gap in between.
Scott Robison I’ve done some simply stuff at home, since I came across this concept, just doing pushup plus is I think a drill that everybody’s done at some point, but none of us really understand like what we’re doing with it. Using more like a rock back, where you’re kneeling and then you sit back on your heels, put your forearms flat to the floor, and then try to do a pushup plus. That is a much more challenging movement than I think that people are going to be expecting.
Kane Sivesind Yeah, it is. I remember the first couple times I tried it, and I couldn’t really get it right away.
Scott Robison You don’t really go anywhere.
Kane Sivesind Yeah. Then once you finally kind of get it, it just all clicks.
Scott Robison Yeah.
Kane Sivesind Everything just releases and feels amazing.
Scott Robison It feels amazing, and then you stand … For me, I stand back up and try to do something like a band pull apart, or something, that clicks right away, too. It’s a much more efficient movement.
Kane Sivesind Yeah. Instead of trying to do band pull aparts and strength something in not the right position, you actually put things in the right position, then they work. It’s kind of amazing.
Scott Robison It’s like magic.
Kane Sivesind Yeah.
Scott Robison Yeah. The reaching I think is like just where that pops up is sort of … Yeah, people underappreciated it as we sort of talked about. So number one, it’s just walking around, I have neck pain, I have upper back pain, a lot of those sorts of things, it pops up, in doing a good pushup or trying to do a good pushup plus, but if you’ve got … like you’re a CrossFitter, and your front rack position sucks, I guarantee it gets better if you improve scapular protraction, which is like this boogeyman of movements. Oh, your shoulder blades are protracted. Yeah, they have to actually do it. You get people to get that neutral T spine, get the shoulder blades where they belong, and all of a sudden they can get their wrists into a more comfortable position under the bar.
Kane Sivesind Yeah, it’s amazing, once that stuff lines up, everything seems to get better. And yeah, especially somebody who’s doing a lot of power movements. I mean, that can be a big, big benefit for them.
Scott Robison Yup. Yeah, just from like a normalization stand point, right? Because that’s thinking about just going back to that extended position, snatch, clean and jerk, squat, deadlift, RDL, bench press, [crosstalk 00:24:14] pull-ups. You name it, all of those, what are we cuing? Thoracic extension.
Kane Sivesind Yup. Exactly.
Scott Robison Every time, right, and reaching is like … I don’t know, what do you do as an exercise besides some basic drills, like what are you doing for exercise to normalize a position, and take people back to a more neutral place?
Kane Sivesind Yeah. One thing, I just want to jump in there real quick, and something you said, all those exercises are extension-based, we’re not against extension at all. We need that extension.
Scott Robison Great point.
Kane Sivesind We need that power. The problem comes when they get stuck in it.
Scott Robison Yeah.
Kane Sivesind That’s what we got to get … If they’re stuck in extension and can’t get in and out, then we got an issue. If we have a power athlete, they need to be able to extend like that to become a better athlete, or more powerful, or whatever you want to do. Okay, back to actually what would we do? One of ours is just-
Ray Eady If I could-
Kane Sivesind Yeah.
Ray Eady I totally agree, right. We understand that when you train, you have to put your clients and athletes in a stressful environment, right?
Scott Robison Yup.
Ray Eady In order to create adaptation there’s got to be some stress. If you’re working with athletes, yeah, we had a saying, I won’t say it on this podcast, but we know that power’s going to come from the hips, right? So you’re going have to train in a manner to be able to produce that power and produce it quickly. But then, when it comes to working with athletes, the recovery piece, can be that area which you work on things where we can kind of create that balance. What we don’t see is, we see the general pop, and even athletes, right? They’re constantly in a training and stressful environment then, because of time and what have you, you kind of minimize recovery period, so we kind of minimize as those periods where, hey, we got some work done, but we need to work on these things too to kind of create that symmetry and balance so. I totally agree with you, man.
Scott Robison So hang on, so what you’re saying Ray, is that it’s not a good idea to train really hard and then get into your car right away?
Ray Eady I would say that, yes.
Scott Robison Okay, all right. Because I’ve never done that before.
Ray Eady I always do some cool downs and some post-recovery work after training.
Scott Robison Got it. Yeah, so sorry. Kane, talk to us about reaching drills, how do you guys deal with that?
Kane Sivesind Yeah, so it kind of depends on the person a little bit, but we use them a lot between some of our heavier, more powerful lifts. Maybe we’re doing a heavy squat day, or an Olympic day or something like that. In between their sets, we’ll do a pre [inaudible 00:26:49] and then like a reset, we call it. So whether it’s like a standing wall reach where we’re pushing against the wall, and then reaching our hands forward, and trying to get some upper back, some breathing, some upper back movement there. Whether we’re doing something more like the child’s pose on your elbows you were talking about, which it’s just a basic squat hold pattern.
Kane Sivesind Our goal is just to help maintain that balance between extension and kind of be back to neutral. We do a lot of it post-workout, just like you and Ray were just talking about. During their workout, we want them to be firefly, like we want them on and going. We don’t want to take them out of that too much, because they’re not going to … results that we want. However, as soon as they’re done, we need to start that recovery process immediately and that’s where some of the reaching, the breathing, the different resets really kick in, and that’s where we’ve seen the biggest difference.
Scott Robison I think, speaking of our boy, Dr. John Rusin here, yeah, I think you and I have read some of the same stuff that he’s … I know that’s a big piece of his workout sequence now is taking three to 15 minutes post-workout to do some … What is it? Supine, so laying on your back, knees up, some sort of a parasympathetic breathing drill. If you can do some balloon work, right? That’s a great time to work that into your routine, right?
Kane Sivesind It is. We’ve had clients like take their balloons to other commercial gyms and get weird looks, but hey, whatever works to help you recover and switch that switch back to parasympathetic, that’s the biggest deal.
Scott Robison Nice. This is a good spot to take a quick break, and when we come back, we’re going to talk more about what specifically you’re doing in your gym, who you’re working with, and that sort of stuff.
Kane Sivesind Sounds great.
Scott Robison

All right.

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Scott Robison All right, and we’re back. We spent a lot of time before the break talking about specific drills on how to improve breathing, and bracing, and reaching, and some of these other things. So Kane, what does it look like at your gym at Core Health & Fitness when you guys are incorporating this stuff into a workout?
Kane Sivesind Yeah, I mean, I think all that stuff was great, but we don’t expect clients to spend an hour at the gym just breathing, and laying on the floor. I mean, we want them to up, and moving, and being athletic, and doing things that are actually going to translate to their real life, because that’s the number one goal of coming to a gym and working out. So the way we set things up is generally is we almost bookend the session. So at the very beginning, we do like some sort of warm up, and some resets. So making sure that we’re putting things in the-
Kane Sivesind Resets. So making sure that we’re putting things in the proper positions, the right muscles are working, everything is lined up properly, so that when we do hit more of the strength work and the power work and the conditioning work, the right things are working. And we’re not getting, we’re not putting you further out of position. We’re actually bringing you back to a better position.
Kane Sivesind And then at the end of the workout, we kind of do it again. And so we kind of like to do this beginning and end, get you set up the right way, workout nice and good, making sure you’re set up again at the end. Make sure you’re turned off and having the right system working. We’ll then get you out the door.
Scott Robison Got it. So what, I mean, who are you working with [inaudible 00:30:40]? Because if I’m walking in the door or Ray walks in, right, it’s me. Heavy squats, right, and lots of fun things like that. Maybe some landmine presses. I know you got some of that gear. I mean, what’s sort of your typical client looking like, and what’s an average person going to get to do with you?
Kane Sivesind Yeah, so we, typical person we work with is probably between about 40 and 60 years old. So we deal with a lot of adults that come in. They generally have some sort of nagging thing going on. So they don’t have a torn ACL or anything that needs actual rehab. But they just have a shoulder that’s kind of giving them trouble, that hurts when they sleep, they have a back that gets sore when they play 18 holes of golf.
Kane Sivesind Different things that they just, just cause aggravation in their life, but aren’t necessarily a full-blown injury. Basically, we set our session up into a couple of different things. We’re going to do some of this core and create a work, but we’re going to really hit a lot of strength work. Each person, we write a customized program for. So we don’t do a workout of the day or anything like that. Each person that comes in, we’re going to assess and go through a whole, through a whole movement assessment with them. See what their goals are. Give them a little bit of what they want or a bit of what they need. Kind of find that balance right there.
Scott Robison Right.
Kane Sivesind But like Ray was talking about before, everybody does our seven basic movement patterns. Whether that is going to be a barbell squat, or a goblet squat, or a body weight squat, the implements don’t matter as much. It’s more the correct movement patterns and doing them in the correct time. But we love doing a lot of stuff with landmines. We love suspension trainers. We love making sure people just know how to use their own body weight.
Scott Robison Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kane Sivesind Whether it’s just straight up regular pushups, which people butcher all the time.
Scott Robison Yeah.
Kane Sivesind And are much harder than people actually realize.
Scott Robison Totally.
Kane Sivesind We love using med balls against our med ball wall, and helping people express power that way. We don’t, we try not to become married to a certain tool. So we’re not a kettle gym, we’re not a TRX gym. We feel like there’s a bunch of different tools out there that work for different reasons, and for different people, and our goal is to find the right one for that person, at that time.
Scott Robison So speaking of tools, why do you guys do individualized programming? I mean, CrossFit’s having a lot, has a lot of success with people in their workout of the day. I know a lot of people in the fitness industry like to kind of dig them a little bit. “I’m in the tribe. I’m out of the tribe.” I’m sort of on the fence a little bit, so I get it. Places like Orangetheory, and boot camps and group fitness is a big thing for folks. What do you like about the individualized approach?
Kane Sivesind Yeah, I don’t have anything against workouts of the day. I’m not a super big, I’m not a CrossFit hater. I think they do an amazing job with a lot of things. Like anything, there’s some good CrossFits and there’s some bad CrossFits.
Scott Robison Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kane Sivesind There’s some good personal trainers, there’s some bad personal trainers. My view is the people that we tend to see need a little bit more individual attention, and this customized workouts gives us the ability to tweak things on the fly a little bit easier. So we have somebody, we might have a 35-year old man, who comes in, who wants to look really good in the summertime. And a 60 year old woman, who just wants her knees to feel better. And we can work with them at the same exact time, with a coach, in the same environment, much, much easier with our individualized programs.
Scott Robison Got it. Are you guys doing one-one-one training, or how does that set up for you?
Kane Sivesind It’s all semi-private. So we do, is we work with up to six people per coach. So it’s kind of a group atmosphere. But they get their own individualized program. So as a coach, I’m going to be bouncing around, and working with everybody. They go at their own pace, they’re doing their own thing, but they still get that group atmosphere and that social support.
Scott Robison Got it. How does that work, right? Because it’s a different story when you’re all sort of in the room together, versus when you’re sharing a bar, and chasing each other, right, that sort of thing.
Kane Sivesind Yeah, I mean it works actually really well for us. It’s great because people get that community, and we’ve built a very, very strong community that you wouldn’t get with like a one-on-one training. I mean-
Scott Robison Sure.
Kane Sivesind Then it’s just a coach and a member, that’s it. But we’re also able to do things that a typical group workout with 30 people, or 20 people at once can’t do.
Scott Robison Right.
Kane Sivesind And so we kind of have that sweet spot, where it’s the same as a one-on-one, except without the price.
Scott Robison Got it. Yeah, so actually speaking of price, you guys aren’t the cheapest gym. Semi-private is not the same price as a boot camp, right?
Kane Sivesind No.
Scott Robison Which I don’t know why people expect like … I remember listening to the CEO of Spirit Airlines. Do you know Spirit Airlines?
Kane Sivesind Oh, yeah.
Scott Robison Right, so for those of you who don’t know, it’s a discount airline. And they make you pay for everything, which but, as he puts it, “They’re selling you like a used Hyundai. You shouldn’t expect a used Hyundai to cost the same price as a new Mercedes.”
Kane Sivesind Yes. I agree with that.
Scott Robison So just to be clear, right, you’re getting what you pay for in a lot of these sorts of training environments, too. But do you have, do you write programs for people who workout elsewhere? Like how does that, how do you try to grow your reach? Because there’s only so many people who can kind fit into that demographic.
Kane Sivesind Yeah, we definitely do. We have a couple different options. So, obviously, like you said, we’re not the cheapest route if you want to go join just a traditional gym, and that’s it. Obviously, that’s going to be much cheaper than us. However, if you want to see a personal trainer, two or three days a week, we’re going to be much cheaper than that. So it’s kind of in-between. Our biggest thing is, we do distance coaching, as well.
Scott Robison Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kane Sivesind Distance coaching, online coaching, whatever you want to call it.
Scott Robison Sure.
Kane Sivesind Where we’ll meet with them once a month, write up a program them, take them through them so they know it all, and then be able to send it with them on the way.
Scott Robison Got it.
Kane Sivesind So it’s kind of the way to get the expert program design, the customization of their program, without having to go to the gym that many days a week.
Scott Robison Right.
Kane Sivesind Or, our gym, I should say. They still have to go to a gym.
Scott Robison Right, you have to go to a gym.
Kane Sivesind Just not our gym, necessarily.
Scott Robison Right, yeah. You could do … It’s amazing, too, how much you can do at home with like a couple of resistance bands and a kettle bell.
Kane Sivesind Yeah. It’s … You don’t need a lot. And I think that’s one thing that people don’t always realize, is there’s no magic tool, necessarily. But it comes down to consistency. The more consistent you are, you’re going to get a better result. I could write the best program in the world for you, and if you do it once a month, it’s not going to work.
Scott Robison Yeah, that’s a great point. Yeah, Ray, you’ve been writing about that in the newsletter for the last couple of weeks.
Ray Eady I have been.
Scott Robison Yep. Who is … I think we kind of talked, right, about who your target demographic is. Is there anybody who just like is a terrible fit for you? Right, and the example I always use, right, is that if somebody calls me and says, “Hey, I’m just … I don’t really … I’m not really in pain. We don’t have any movement problems. I just like … I just really need to relax and chill out.” And I’ll say, “Great. Here’s five other people I know who would do that better than me.” Right, so who do you refer out?
Kane Sivesind I’d say the person that comes to me and says, “I want to lose 20 pounds in two weeks.” That’s not me.
Scott Robison Got it.
Kane Sivesind That’s not us. Can it be done? Well, debatable there anyways, but if-
Scott Robison How long does it stay off? Right, that’s going to be next question.
Kane Sivesind Exactly. So we’re much more into the, “Hey, let’s create a better quality of life.” Obviously, we want people to look better and have better confidence. That’s a big part of fitness. But we want people to move better, feel better, be able to do anything they want in their life. So that’s really the person that resonates well with us. If they’re just looking for a real quick fix, or a vacation, or a wedding, and that’s it, and don’t plan to do anything after that, are generally not the best fit for us.
Scott Robison Got it, okay. Ray, do you have any other sort of last thoughts here?
Ray Eady No, [inaudible 00:38:43] you guys are, sound like you guys are doing an amazing job. I really like the individualizing of the workouts. Because of one my training principles, well, it would be our training principles, is the principle of individuality. Client A or Client B, you’re going to have some commonalities, but they’re going to also have some differences, as well.
Ray Eady But what I like about your setup is, and I’ve discussed with this Scott, is a lot of people have good intentions when they train, right. But a lot of people don’t train well. A lot of people don’t exercise well. And what I like about Core is having the personal trainers and the personalized programs, because you can prescribe exercises, but only get those people to work and train hard, because that needs to be evident, but to actually exercise well. So I think your motto is very good because and this is not talking bad about any gym, right.
Ray Eady But as fitness practitioners, we have a habit of looking at people and how they train, correct? How they move, and we say to ourselves, “Why?”
Kane Sivesind Totally.
Ray Eady That person has good intentions, but they just don’t exercise well under load.
Kane Sivesind Yeah.
Ray Eady And you want to go in there and just help them. But we know, sometimes that’s a no-no.
Kane Sivesind Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ray Eady So I appreciate what Core is doing, because you guys have the total package, right. And you come and join us, we do an assessment, we create an individualized program, you have this dedicated coach, and we’re going to make sure that you exercise well, right. So you’re going to get the results you seek, but you’re going to do it in a manner that is relatively healthy.
Kane Sivesind Well, thank you, Ray. That means a lot coming from you. I know your past, and your accomplishments, and everything. So having that come from you is a big complement to us. So thank you very much.
Scott Robison If people want to reach out and connect with you, how do they do that?
Kane Sivesind Probably the best way is through our website. We have some contact forms right there. It’s CoreHealthandFit.com. Otherwise, you can just always reach me, personally, through my email at Kane, K-A-N-E, @corehealthandfit.com. Or, you can just give us a call at 608-831-2673.
Scott Robison Awesome. Are you guys on social media anywhere?
Kane Sivesind Yes, we are. We’re on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. More prevalent on Facebook and Instagram.
Scott Robison Yeah.
Kane Sivesind Those are kind of the two main places that we’ll post.
Scott Robison Okay, now we’re recording this in mid-September, 2018. We had some biblical flooding here, in Madison, about a month or so ago. So you guys are out of commission currently. What’s your projected return time?
Kane Sivesind Yeah, we’re hoping to be back up and running in late October, early November.
Scott Robison Awesome.
Kane Sivesind So we’re still looking at like six to eight weeks from now. We’re just putting back the electrical, and some of the drywall right now, and then slowly, but surely, we’re building an even better gym. We’re redoing some things that we didn’t do the first time. So we’re looking forward to that.
Scott Robison Cool. I can’t wait to come out and take a look. All right, but people can still reach out and connect with you in the meantime, right?
Kane Sivesind Yes, yes. Please do. We’re always there. We’re still meeting with new clients, and talking about their goals, and helping them in the meantime before we’re back up and running. So anybody who feels like they need a little coaching, a little accountability, and want some guidance, we’re happy to help.
Scott Robison Awesome. All right, Kane. Thanks so much for taking time out of your busy day. I know you’ve got a lot going on, trying to get back up and running. I appreciate it.
Kane Sivesind Thank you, Scott, and Ray, for both having me. And yeah, thanks. This has been great. Thank you.
Scott Robison All right. Take care.
Ray Eady Take care.
Kane Sivesind

Bye.

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